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Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 4	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:27:00 - [1] - Quote Im just going to throw out some ideas about what I think might be some good fixes to FW with out having to revamp the whole thing like CCP seems to be implying. I almost completely disagree with CCP wanting to use us as a "test" bed for Sov Warfare. Instead I think a few smaller changes can be made to really make FW shine. 1. We don't need our own CMS special elected leaders for FW. We need a person that speaks for us on the current and future CMSs. If we cant put aside our differences and work towards a better FW and get some one on the CMS that will speak for us I would hate to see what our own so called leaders of FW would be like. Mostly I see a group joining FW with tons of alts to take over elections and just ruin it because they can. I would like to see FW as drama free as possible for corps that want to join for the PvP. 2. We don't need to be the test bed for Alliance Sov Warfare. I would rather see there being a small impact with factions conquering space but if it becomes a matter of "leaders" making choices for the Faction like Alliance leaders make for Alliances I see FW getting trolled more often then not. Currently we fight because we enjoy fighting. If we get some kinda Faction "leaders" that run the whole thing on some power trip I don't see things ending well. With such low voter count its way to ways to "fix" elections with such a small player base in FW. A 3000 man alliance joining for the lullz of crushing it all into the ground and then leaving would be something I could see happening. Basically I don't think Militia should be treated like an Alliance, I don't mind Alliances joining but they shouldn't be able to have any true "control" over the faction. 3. I like the Alliances joining FW part of the patch and don't see it having a huge impact one way or the other (As long as we don't become a test bed or have our own "special" elections). Corps already work together closely like a very loose alliance. At most this allows for corps in FW to band together a bit easier. Since FW is well established at this point I hope that any single FW faction could handle a big alliance moving in. I don't see it forever changing the carefree shoot everything that moves nature that is FW in its current form. 4. Plexing - Remove the current rats all together, no need for them to be there. Plexing should have a reason more then standings. I think a good fix here would be to have Plexing effect LP payout (More controllable systemed own the more LP reward for missions) and if agents in conqured space no longer give missions. Other then that plexing is kinda nice since it restricts ship types (maybe a change to not allow faction ships in minors but not 100% needed). I also think that if a system is going vulnerable that Militia chat should be spammed with a auto counter every 15 min telling what system and when it will coming open to attack by having some kinda reinforce timer. Currently there is little time to prep for a system being conquerable or easy way to find out about it. If conquering systems becomes important there should be a quick easy way to find out when and where your militia should be defending or attacking. 5. Missions - Give them Sleeper AI and make it a fleet event. I think this would stop people from farming missions just for isk and never having a real reason to join in the PvP. You can become rich with out ever shooting another player and do it from the safety of a stealth bomber and interceptor currently. I don't mind the single minded nature of the missions. Fly in kill somethings and get out is IMHO awesome and I think that theme should stay but I don't think the rats should be so easily handled by a SB and Cepter. If they had Better AI where made more fair across the board you would have more fights coming out of them. Currently they are super easy and do nothing but make me rich in the game. The potential is there for so much more. With a Sleeper AI along with a reward bump for doing the missions would make people actually have to fly a fleet out to lowsec and roam around. Currently you only have fleets roaming around looking for other fleets. If scouts don't find anything to kill no one goes out. There are allot of fights don't get me wrong but if we had people having to fleet up and head out into lowsec with a fleet to face off with Sleeper AI they can also stand and fight most lowsec gangs. Level 1 - 4 should be like a class 1 - 4 wormholes possibly Class 2 - 5 wormholes depending on mission payouts. Force players to bring logi, ECM, ECCM, DPS and tactics. Make the missions simular for all sides so no one joins a faction just to farm the easier rats. Missions should be about getitng into fights and making enough isk while doing it to make it worth while. The more small gangs of 5 to 20 people we have roaming lowsec the better IMHO. I also think it would give something to do while you are roaming looking for a fight. Might as well make some money and have a reason to roam all around FW space. I like the idea of having everyone pick up lots of missions like it currently is but the take over of systems should limit your ability to do so and having Hisec agents giving much lower pay out to make control of systems matter. Still having a good amount of agents in highsec is need (possibly more then currently) to allow for a factions best money supply to be protect in a way but still hurt. Thank you for your time Frozen Fallout
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 5	Posted - 2012.01.25 01:26:00 - [2] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: The FW missions are fine. No AI adjustment needed The thing that I think is broken the most about FW missions is they pay out more isk then almost anything else I have seen and are the easiest missions I have ever seen. IMHO they just attract hoards of PvEers that just want to use FW for the isk that it give you. If I was to make an isk alt for a 0.0 character I wouldn't have him in an Empire level 4 mission corp I would stick him in FW in the NPC corp and just have him farm me isk with no risk. In the end if FW doesn't fix missions its always going to be more of an alts isk making Haven then a PvPers dream. I can understand if people are not going to be happy having one of the easiest isk faucets in the game being turned into a team game rather then the solo/duo game it is now. But the more FW can be about small fleet PvP and less about just joing for the isk the better I think FW will be. Just looking at the number of people that are in FW and the number that actually PvPs in FW is mind blowing. I think the most (not all but most) that would be opposed to some kinda change that would stop a solo person from making billions of isk in a night are also the same people in FW just to make said billions. I don't think the pay out should be lowered for FW missions infact I think maybe even a boost might be in order if they made them a Team activity where you actually need to put more on the line then just 50 million isk that is nearly impossible to catch. Linking it to Sov as it currently is will just make it worse with everyone running missions in SB and Cepters and never PvPing because their isk faucet will be shut of if they ever stop missioning. I do agree that FW sov stuff could have an impact on station stuff be it docking or station services but doing so has much greater effects on FW then just kicking them out of lowsec if they cant plex. I am happy to see more FW corps be it Gallente or Caldari moving into lowsec to do FW operations. If you set something up where they basically cant live in FW lowsec unless they keep the system under control I forsee more people just living in hisec for fear they may just get kicked out of their space. Although this would make fighting over space that much more important which might not be a bad thing for PvP.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 5	Posted - 2012.01.25 01:55:00 - [3] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: Making billions of isk in a night is an over statement. At best when I used to run them with Dop, Saidra and others it would take about 4 hours to make enough isk to get a Domi The Domi would sell around 360-400m but the cost to get the domi was what 80m or so. The time investment is fine for the isk, the point I agree on is the isk faucet however fixing it so capping a system locks out an agent or greatly reduces the LP is what stops people from missioning. I see no problem with having people "locked out" of a stations services, as they can always go a couple jumps to high. It forces them to fight. If they leave, good then they werent really there for the pvp. Just like in all alliances in 00 if someone is getting rofl stomped they move into another systme. Same thing will happen to FW however by making systems lock down and virtually remove all station benefits as well as fw mission benefits you make fw an alliance (both faction vs both faction) instead of cheap thrills at best. Reason to fight = griefing others and protecting your isk fight over resources always brings war I have made well over a billion isk in one night of solo running level 4s in an Ishtar before I could take 6 missions at once. Depending on how you do it and what faction you are in you can make way to much isk for almost no risk. If I was a Caldari I could have done the same with a SB solo. If you dual or Tri box and do it right you can make billions of isk in a night with out a problem. Im not saying that everyone in FW can do this but the isk farmers know how easy it is to make the isk off FW missions. The point is they are too easy to make them meaning full with out changing them. Just making them worth doing doesn't make them any better. People already do them for the crazy isk. If you put more meaning into them with out any changes more people will just do them the price on Navy T1 ships will keep coming down like they are and does nothing to fix them. And you cant get much easier of a mission then FW missions. Even if you lock people out of systems theres always hisec missions agents for FW and you will never stop the hoards of alts from doing missions if they are so easy. Besides if its all about locking out stations to stop the Isk farmers all the farmers will just join the winning factions and because the losses will have so little isk compared to the other side and smaller numbers keeping systems which requires little PvP currently to do it will just be a PvEers dream rather then PvPers Dream. Also I don't want us to be like 0.0 so locking us out of a station does just that. Make it more like 0.0. Although I don't fully disagree that having a station lock out of some kind wouldn't force us to fight but I think there are better ways of doing it that can be tried first before we start locking people out of a station in Empire. The idea does have appeal though as it does make sense that an enemy faction wouldn't like you dock in there space.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 5	Posted - 2012.01.25 02:13:00 - [4] - Quote Garr Earthbender wrote: I do realize that mixing PVP with PVE is a hard thing to do. Usually 1 of the 2 suffers, and it's usually the PvE. I've gone on a couple of 'fleet' FW missions with battlecruisers, and it was dicey at times. Still, objectives melted quickly and we were on our way within 2 minutes of getting the missions popped. Would I like for the actual FW missions to be harder? ......No. Would I like them to keep the same amount of difficulty but reward 'fleets' instead of solo flyers? Yes. I think that either Sleeper or Incursion AI would be great, and have rewards scale along with the size of the fleet like the Incursion curve. I positive I'm not the 1st to suggest this. It's a great way to get fleets out and get fights. If there's 2 opposing factions running FW mission fleets, there's a high chance of combat. So this also proposes a few questions my reply would be: 1: Should FW missions be only picked up by a fleet? 2: What would be the LP payout? Combat is expected, ships are expected to be lost. Should LP increase per mission knowing that the risks are greater? I wouldn't want to do PvE when the possibility of losing a ship outweighs the LP/ISK gain. Just my thoughts. I agree it should be about fleets not about solo people. 1: Should FW missions be only picked up by a fleet? : No I think the lower ones should be geared twords possibly being done solo in the right ship but leaving it the way it is for pick up missions is fine. The way it is if you had 10 people pick up 6 missions most of those 60 missions will be in only 10 to 20 systems that will be clustered together which is perfect for a fleet. Doesn't seem like they need to do any real changes but maybe make it possible for more then 10 in a fleet when doing group reward. 2: What would be the LP payout? Combat is expected, ships are expected to be lost. Should LP increase per mission knowing that the risks are greater? I wouldn't want to do PvE when the possibility of losing a ship outweighs the LP/ISK gain.: No leaving it simple where LP that which the agent tells you it is upon maybe a system where you get more LP out of agents if you own more Controllable systems. But leaving it simple makes it easier for both programmers and players just increasing the Pay out might help but most missions pay for a BC hull.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 5	Posted - 2012.01.25 02:31:00 - [5] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: but you must dual or triple box, if your willing to do that then you are really making that money over TWO characters not one. When EVE starts gimping my isk because someone wants to dual or triple box and then say "that is the norm" is balogne. What is the normal amount of isk you can generate with ONE account, and for the record the ishtar would die if FW was populated more. I remember jumping through a gate in a gila....and it dieing in a blaze of fire due to a roam. Thats what happens when you do it solo, real risk. Dual boxing and triple boxing is not solo Solo if I was a squid I could make about the same as my Ishtar with warp while cloak which is better then the Ishtar with the mwd cloak trick. I could easly make a billion isk in one sitting completely solo no dual boxing. I would think the Caldari could do about the same with even less risk. It comes down to NPCs and ships that can do the missions. Even doing it with a friend I make about the same with a cepter and SB or 2. With a cepters and an SB we normally do a set or two of missions netting us a half billion+ worth of isk in under 3 to 5 hours of work. Its just to easy for the risk which is almost none if you are in warp while cloak ships and cepters. Even the Ishtar with mwd and cloak is almost impossible to catch with out a good cepter bumping ship with a gate camp. And its not just about be able to solo or dual box them its about how damn easy they are for the risk involved. If you say had to actually bring a small fleet to actually do the mission you would have a chance for PvP but the way it is now I don't think I have seen any mission running fleets of SBs and cepters go after anything other then the very odd gank. Almost every time they cloak up and run and hide. Not even a chance at really catching one mission running fleet unless your lucky and they are stupid, The point is they are just to damn easy as they are which is why there are 6000 people in Caldari militia and only 100 PvPers. Make them a fleet activity and you will have more PvPers and less PvEers IMHO.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 5	Posted - 2012.01.25 05:05:00 - [6] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: I do not really understand cry about FW missions, those are not so good isk anymore. You can make lot of is with those, but example incursions are much better for small gangs and wormholes are even better. Farming sanctums in 0.0 is better too. And i do not see how it is bad that you can solo FW lvl4 because some people solo even LVL5 missions. There is always risk in lowsec to get caught, bombers and ceptors may be hard to catch but still people lose those daily. If you nerf too much FW missions or make those much harder it goes like it was at the beginning of FW, no one does those. And if someone joins to FW to just farm missions, he is still one target more to opposing factions, maybe hard to catch but still a target. If you do not want to hunt him down it is not missioners fault really. It is just good that there is different ways to play this game. Edit: also you have to remember that when you join FW you limit lot of your highsec PVE possibilities. I do agree that FW mission running has taken a hit for isk per hour and there are better isk per hour activities out there. I also agree that its not that bad as it currently is. I also agree that over time it has become much less isk per hour and Incursions are great isk. I also think that its just going to get worse as Navy T1 BSs continue to flood the market. The thing about FW missions isn't that there is better isk per hour its that the effort is much less compared to other tasks. You mention Lvl 5 missions. I don't know very many 1 year characters running Level 5 missions solo or duo. I have seen and worked with many young characters (or alts) that joined FW and made tons of isk with little effort. Incursions take a small gang and has the new AI which I think FW should have. I don't want to nerf the missions so that people cant make money and I don't really want to make them harder per say. Keep the theme of Warp in kill a couple things and leave with out salvaging or dealing with the left over rats. But get rid of the one faction is easier to farm then the other and make them omni damage and omni ewar (ECM, Web, Scram, Neut, ect). Give them the new AI so the cepter SB no longer works and people start running them with small fleets. Bump up the pay out so that its still worth doing even with 5 to 10 guys. Getting more fleets running around lowsec is just asking for PvP. It shouldn't hurt the bottom line just the fact that now there is risk and more PvP to be had for all in FW lowsec. One thing I would like to say quick is that I don't think FW sucks in its current form. I actually like it allot and with the new patch I think some of the fixes have made it even better. I just see allot of potential with small tweeks to the current system to foster more of a PvP environment then a PvE environment. I guess I just see adding the new AI as a simple elegant solution.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 6	Posted - 2012.01.25 06:36:00 - [7] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: You can do every factions mission with speed tank and bomber. Also you can do those with ishtar solo. Fits may differ a bit but it is possible and easy. edit: -¦by asking that make same npc for all is something that will break whole idea of different races in EVE. If you think some side is easier to farm you are free to change side. Those are just excuses to keep the farming going. Whats so horrible about having the new AI in missions other then "I don't want to" or "I like the lazy isk I make." Saying races should hold true to their EW just because the old AI did it that way and it sucked isn't a good reason to keep it. You have to admit the old AI is horrible and sure they will never get rid of it for fear the hisec mission farmers will stop playing but the new AI is much better and I haven't heard a good reason for not including it in FW missions. Also I don't see why a Caldari ship should have to be restricted to Caldari damage types and EW when clearly they aren't. Just because the old system had that restriction doesn't make it true, just proves how sad the old system was. Any ship in this game can have any kind of tank, EW, and damage types. I don't see why NPCs should always be restricted by such an out dated AI.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 17:19:00 - [8] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: The problem with all of mecha's argument is that you consider bomber and inty solo. Its not. Can you run two ships on one eve program? No you have to dual box. Your argument is I am playing two accounts and doing two peoples jobs and counting the money as one character??? No Two accounts = income split between two ways. Now if you can solo in a frig (pick one) and by solo I mean ONE SHIP. Then yes we have a problme. However the current method of FW missions align up perfectly with pirate 00 missions. The reason people come to lowsec to farm missions is because lowsec is generally safer from anyone coming and killing you. You have to worry about sec status if you kill someone and you are not in FW, and the FW members are to lazy to interupt someone missioning. You can EASILY stop a mission runner, but it is boring as hell. And that is why we dont do it. When you get into a system and you dscan a ship to see that its a bomber running the mission, who really tries to go kill it? No one. Its too much work to try and catch it. You could prevent it and frusterate the hell out of him but that takes time to. Just because you dont do the options that would prevent/limit mission running does not mean it is OP. EDIT And if you have to solo in an ishtar, there is real risk. The cost of the ship vs the mission is abslutely worth it. I tell you this, if I see an ishtar on dsacn running a mission you bet your ass I am going to try and catch it As I said before and I guess I have to say it again. It has nothing to do with Solo and everything to do with risk. There is no risk with the current missions at all if done right. Im not saying its completely broken and that its destroying the game. Im just trying to come up with simple things that could add to FW and make it more of a PvPers game then a PvEers. Right now I would bet more people use FW for PvE and isk farming then for PvP. Sounds to me like CCP doesn't like FW the way it is currently and if we don't find something better to fix it it sounds like from the CMS minutes that they are going to change the whole thing and make us 0.0 guinea pig. Maybe they will leave missions the way they are and let us farm them for LP until the T1 faction BS are worth 200 million or they will completely change it. From the sounds of it CCP are looking to completely overhaul the system. I think one of the problems we have in FW at least when it comes to talking to CCP is that there are 3 different type of people in FW right now. PvPers who just want to shoot ****, PvEers who just want to farm the missions, and people who use missions to pay for PvP. I don't want Missions nerfted I just want there to be risk and probably even better pay out. Not risk from NPCs as Bad Messenger seemed to think I was saying but from Players. And yes I would love to see you doing missions in BC fleets Bad Messenger at least then we could have a chance for PvP even if as it sounds you think your PvE group would smash our PvP group because you have billions of isk in Titans and Faction ships.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 17:49:00 - [9] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: Frozen Fallout wrote: BolsterBomb wrote: The problem with all of mecha's argument is that you consider bomber and inty solo. Its not. Can you run two ships on one eve program? No you have to dual box. Your argument is I am playing two accounts and doing two peoples jobs and counting the money as one character??? No Two accounts = income split between two ways. Now if you can solo in a frig (pick one) and by solo I mean ONE SHIP. Then yes we have a problme. However the current method of FW missions align up perfectly with pirate 00 missions. The reason people come to lowsec to farm missions is because lowsec is generally safer from anyone coming and killing you. You have to worry about sec status if you kill someone and you are not in FW, and the FW members are to lazy to interupt someone missioning. You can EASILY stop a mission runner, but it is boring as hell. And that is why we dont do it. When you get into a system and you dscan a ship to see that its a bomber running the mission, who really tries to go kill it? No one. Its too much work to try and catch it. You could prevent it and frusterate the hell out of him but that takes time to. Just because you dont do the options that would prevent/limit mission running does not mean it is OP. EDIT And if you have to solo in an ishtar, there is real risk. The cost of the ship vs the mission is abslutely worth it. I tell you this, if I see an ishtar on dsacn running a mission you bet your ass I am going to try and catch it As I said before and I guess I have to say it again. It has nothing to do with Solo and everything to do with risk. There is no risk with the current missions at all if done right. Im not saying its completely broken and that its destroying the game. Im just trying to come up with simple things that could add to FW and make it more of a PvPers game then a PvEers. Right now I would bet more people use FW for PvE and isk farming then for PvP. Sounds to me like CCP doesn't like FW the way it is currently and if we don't find something better to fix it it sounds like from the CMS minutes that they are going to change the whole thing and make us 0.0 guinea pig. Maybe they will leave missions the way they are and let us farm them for LP until the T1 faction BS are worth 200 million or they will completely change it. From the sounds of it CCP are looking to completely overhaul the system. I think one of the problems we have in FW at least when it comes to talking to CCP is that there are 3 different type of people in FW right now. PvPers who just want to shoot **, PvEers who just want to farm the missions, and people who use missions to pay for PvP. I don't want Missions nerfted I just want there to be risk and probably even better pay out. Not risk from NPCs as Bad Messenger seemed to think I was saying but from Players. And yes I would love to see you doing missions in BC fleets Bad Messenger at least then we could have a chance for PvP even if as it sounds you think your PvE group would smash our PvP group because you have billions of isk in Titans and Faction ships. You keep saying add player risk however its avaliable** to you. GO kill them or prevent them from doing the mission. LOL Just because you arent doing it doesnt mean its not avaliable. You are trying to adjust missions to do something that eve is not intended to (computer driven via AI) . This is a sandbox go stop the mission runners. You may not be able to kill a bomber in a mission but you sure can STOP them from doing it. And if you cant catch an ishtar running missions then thats your problem. They cant use covert op cloaks.... So my question to you is this then Froz If players are currently allowed to enter anothers mission, kill them, interupt them, prevent them from doing the mission what more would you like to see? We are not talking about how to complete the mission (bomber and inty) but how to add player interaction to stop a mission runner? When you have 3 people running missions each taking 6 missions each thats 18 missions they do on one run. You cant stop them from doing a mission you can only delay. They just go to the next one. And chasing 20 million isk ships around for hours on end isn't fun for anyone, I would rather go out and fight pirates which put up more fights then the Caldari at the moment. As for catching an Ishtar its so rare to see some one with the balls to actually run missions in a destructible ship it might as well never happen. Im just throwing out Ideas because CCP has made it clear they want to wipe the whole system and make it a new. Missions was just one of the many things that need to be looked at and I would rather we as players of FW would work together and present some good ideas to CCP because it seems CCP is going to destroy that which we love if we dont. I suppose if you just want to sit back and wait to see what CCP does and not offer any good ideas (just attack others) you might just get what you want. Here's to CCP destroying one of the best play grounds in Eve for PvP Cheers Mate.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 18:13:00 - [10] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: The reason I am busting your chops on this is because you are right we do need to offer good ideas. But IMO your ideas are bad and unessacary (for fw missions only) The missions are fine, it is not CCPs fault that players do not want to stop other players from farming isk. The ability is there and you can do it. Heck half the time fw players are surfing the internet anyway while online. Do it while camping the mission gate once you push them out. If you hinder enough of them you can shut down systems. Why not camp the agents station? All the mechanics that are avalaible for other missions outside FW are avalaiable and the same to FW players. That is my point. You are making suggestions to something that does not need to be tweaked in FW. Go after the plexing purpose first. In my experience you do not suggest items that need minor tweaking or are fine by the majority of the players you only suggest the areas that need to be fixed less you break something all together. Do not yell for a nerf bat or adjustments to this nature before you fix the real purpose. If you "fix" missions you are only depleting the fw player base even more. Even if they only come to fw for missions, they are still there. So your crusade has yeilded no results. So let me get this strait you think FW should be all about camping gates, camping stations and camping missions? Sounds boring to me and I don't think very many people in FW would agree that it should be all about camping.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 19:10:00 - [11] - Quote I would just like to say I don't think missions ruin FW at all and I have made my billions of isk and will continue to make my isk with FW not a problem. It was but 1 of my 5 points and it was at the bottom for a reason. I think everyone for the past few posts has focused on something that is completely away from the point I am trying to make with my original point. Which was: CCP has told us via these Minutes that they are looking to completely overhaul the system and possibly destroy it with our own special CMS council so we can have even more drama and in fighting as well as it being more attractive to join just to ruin it. They want to throw out the plexing and replace it with some new Sov system they haven't even talked about yet (how many sov systems have had so far? And how many of them where good?). I also offered a few off handed ideas to try and get the gears rolling. The intent was not to make it a bash on mission runners. What we need to do is work together not be fighting each other. If we don't have a Focused Dream for FW and impose it on CCP. I think CCP is going to give us a Nightmare. My personal belief is that FW should be all about the PvP and everything about it should cater to that aspect as much as possible. So some of my ideas are going to be bias and I will admit that. Im willing to put aside bias and try and find good ideas. BolsterBombs right that having Plexing lock down stations would help force fighting and ideas like these should be talked about just as much as some comment I made about missioning. We need to work together to present some solutions that aren't completely bias. If we can present a more united front and maybe even get a CMS that will speak for us will do much more good and maybe even prevent the nightmare that CCP has proposed.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 19:26:00 - [12] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: chatgris wrote: Missions should be removed completely from FW. This is because there is no way to fail your opponents mission (except for one). Therefore, carebears can just come in, pick up 14 missions, and if they get interrupted in one place go away do others and come back later, or just fail the mission. I know, because I've both hunted mission runners and run missions like that for 36 hours straight solo in a gila. Expecting pvp to come from this primarily pve activity is just not going to happen. What should occur instead is that plexes should give LP for completion. Unlike a mission, if someone comes into your plex they can actually undo the work you've done. This forces the mission runner to pvp to chase them away, or abandon your progress (not resume it later). This also gives the mission hunter some reward for staying and ruining your day. How plexes should be changed is a completely different story: e.g. notifications if someone is running a plex: this could lead to interesting last stand situations where you try and delay the enemy getting to your plex (distractions along the way etc?). NPC balance etc all are independent of this idea. Yes, carebears will still come. Nothing will force carebears into your guns, but you can hunt them more effectively, eventually giving them the option of learning to pvp, or moving elsewhere for other rewards leaving the FW specific rewards to those who wish to pvp. This is a completely legitimate solution to the problem as well. I agree. Agreed I also like this idea. Simple and easy solution. I like!
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 21:17:00 - [13] - Quote chatgris wrote: As long as the hunter get some kind of reward for failing missions, I'm fine with it. But then, missions just start looking like plexes with choke points (agents who give missions) that enemy blobs can camp. If you want to keep missions in the game, have them count towards system occupancy, in what way do they differ from plexes? I think there would still be a difference even if both gave LP and occupancy. FW missions would be blitzable and would be for money. Go in kill something and leave. Should give lots of LP an some occupancy. Plexs should be about holding a spot like they are for an amount of time. Lots of VP but some LP The hunter in each case would have to do a timer just like Plexing. I like the idea of capping missions.
Frozen Fallout Mecha Enterprises Fleet 8	Posted - 2012.01.25 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote Garr Earthbender wrote: Lotsa good stuff in here. There seems to be good arguments on keeping or removing FW missions. Both sides of the arguments have merits for sure. The other question to ask (thanks Shaalira) is 'What about Dust 514?' I mean, all this theorycrafting is just CRAP without knowing how Dust will be implemented within the EVE universe, and specifically FW. le sigh Oh well. I guess the question I would ask is do we want Dust 514 to be a big effect on FW or if it will just be about planets (not directly related to our sov) Do we want to be the test bed or whatever for the Dust Eve Connection. I personally don't want that. I would rather see small fixes and a rewards system for plexs and capturing systems but not to be a test bed for the New Sov System. I personally think that CCP currently things this is a good idea. And since we don't really have anyone on the CSM that is there to protect and enhance our aspect of the game. No one is really being able to stand up to CCP and say No and present them with something better for FW.

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